You are spot on all counts. I was recently on a trip to Mexico with 17 women. Due to an innocent misunderstanding or miscommunication, one of them missed a hacienda tour and immediately went to, "You all left me! No one noticed I was missing! I guess I'm not part of this group anymore. I'm going home!"
When we made our way as a group to the other activity on this outing, swimming in an underground cave, she crossed her arms and declared, "I am not talking to ANYBODY!"
She calmed down and didn't go home, but never acknowledged or apologized for her poor behavior, and several other women confided in me they do no want to travel with her again.
I have said many times that the hardest ongoing practice of adulthood is separating what you feel from what you know.
Did she feel left out? Absolutely.
Should she have known that 16 women did not collectively decide to exclude her from a portion of an outing we were on? Absolutely.
The mom missed an opportunity 20 years ago to learn from the experience about *why* she may have been excluded from the trip. It's possible the other friends were mean girls. It's also possible she was blind to some alienating behaviors. She'll never know.
And yes, it's impossible for her daughter - or any of us - to include everyone in everything. No one has a right to our time and attention. She's setting her daughter up for a lot of unhealthy and potentially dangerous people-pleasing .
I'm also reading The Latecomer, in print, and it's a bit depressing for me. Everyone in this family is alone (I can't even say alone together because they are not together.) I had to put it away for a week or so before I decided to continue. Now I'm at the turning point, so I will continue, but I still don't actually care about any the people involved except Rochelle and Phoebe.
I did love The Plot, by the same author, it actually spoiled me for Yellowface, as I thought The Plot was superior.
I love your message so much! I think I accidentally might have "built something new" when I made the conscious decision to invite only four friends to my birthday brunch. It's hard for me to do small gatherings because I don't have one tight group of friends; I wish I did but it hasn't worked out that way. Rather, I have many friends, many of whom aren't connected to each other. But after my birthday brunch, our small crew got together for another brunch! And we planned a girls weekend! Maybe I'm creating the small group I always wanted!?
As a Neurodivergent human, something about this episode and article hit differently. With a lifetime of friendship struggles, I sought out resources and found your podcast and have been an early listener grateful for positive tips and advice. With this one, I kept thinking... it's not that easy for everyone. Yes, kids should be taught to advocate for their needs in all relationships and not be forced into uncomfortable situations, but that's a different conversation entirely. I'm going to assume that this mother has had separate conversations teaching her child about consent and advocating for herself and her needs.
Teaching our kids to be inclusive is equally valid.
When you said, "This is an active choice she is making—one that she’s modeling for her daughter," it felt dismissive towards that mom's experience, and really to anyone that could be struggling with friendships or have similarly traumatic experiences with friendships. How do you know it's a choice for her? After my own traumatic friendship experience, my brain built fortified walls around my heart. It didn't mean that I didn't crave friendship, or choose to be brave and try to make new friends - but that trauma left a deep scar. A scar I deal with and heal from, but it's not as easy as a choice to not allow it to impact relationships and to imply I'm modeling the wrong thing for my kids by being guarded and encouraging inclusiveness feels... wrong.
I'm still processing and trying to figure out what exactly my brain is thinking.
It must be nice to be the one that gets to have lots of friends to choose a smaller group from... I'd settle for one or two solid friendships.
I guess I was left feeling like this podcast I've enjoyed may not be as inclusive towards neurodivergent perspectives... and that's okay, it doesn't have to be. It's a similar feeling of realizing a "friend" isn't the safe space I had expected either.
I appreciate your voice on friendship so much AND I get recipes out of it?!?! Am going to make that white chili!
You are spot on all counts. I was recently on a trip to Mexico with 17 women. Due to an innocent misunderstanding or miscommunication, one of them missed a hacienda tour and immediately went to, "You all left me! No one noticed I was missing! I guess I'm not part of this group anymore. I'm going home!"
When we made our way as a group to the other activity on this outing, swimming in an underground cave, she crossed her arms and declared, "I am not talking to ANYBODY!"
She calmed down and didn't go home, but never acknowledged or apologized for her poor behavior, and several other women confided in me they do no want to travel with her again.
I have said many times that the hardest ongoing practice of adulthood is separating what you feel from what you know.
Did she feel left out? Absolutely.
Should she have known that 16 women did not collectively decide to exclude her from a portion of an outing we were on? Absolutely.
The mom missed an opportunity 20 years ago to learn from the experience about *why* she may have been excluded from the trip. It's possible the other friends were mean girls. It's also possible she was blind to some alienating behaviors. She'll never know.
And yes, it's impossible for her daughter - or any of us - to include everyone in everything. No one has a right to our time and attention. She's setting her daughter up for a lot of unhealthy and potentially dangerous people-pleasing .
I'm also reading The Latecomer, in print, and it's a bit depressing for me. Everyone in this family is alone (I can't even say alone together because they are not together.) I had to put it away for a week or so before I decided to continue. Now I'm at the turning point, so I will continue, but I still don't actually care about any the people involved except Rochelle and Phoebe.
I did love The Plot, by the same author, it actually spoiled me for Yellowface, as I thought The Plot was superior.
I love your message so much! I think I accidentally might have "built something new" when I made the conscious decision to invite only four friends to my birthday brunch. It's hard for me to do small gatherings because I don't have one tight group of friends; I wish I did but it hasn't worked out that way. Rather, I have many friends, many of whom aren't connected to each other. But after my birthday brunch, our small crew got together for another brunch! And we planned a girls weekend! Maybe I'm creating the small group I always wanted!?
"When you focus on those rejecting you, you reject those focusing on you." - Me
I tend to forget my own advice sometimes though. :) I agree that friendship is worth pursuing, even when we've been hurt!
Coming here to say i love this substack and all these resources on friendship. Thank you!
As a Neurodivergent human, something about this episode and article hit differently. With a lifetime of friendship struggles, I sought out resources and found your podcast and have been an early listener grateful for positive tips and advice. With this one, I kept thinking... it's not that easy for everyone. Yes, kids should be taught to advocate for their needs in all relationships and not be forced into uncomfortable situations, but that's a different conversation entirely. I'm going to assume that this mother has had separate conversations teaching her child about consent and advocating for herself and her needs.
Teaching our kids to be inclusive is equally valid.
When you said, "This is an active choice she is making—one that she’s modeling for her daughter," it felt dismissive towards that mom's experience, and really to anyone that could be struggling with friendships or have similarly traumatic experiences with friendships. How do you know it's a choice for her? After my own traumatic friendship experience, my brain built fortified walls around my heart. It didn't mean that I didn't crave friendship, or choose to be brave and try to make new friends - but that trauma left a deep scar. A scar I deal with and heal from, but it's not as easy as a choice to not allow it to impact relationships and to imply I'm modeling the wrong thing for my kids by being guarded and encouraging inclusiveness feels... wrong.
I'm still processing and trying to figure out what exactly my brain is thinking.
It must be nice to be the one that gets to have lots of friends to choose a smaller group from... I'd settle for one or two solid friendships.
I guess I was left feeling like this podcast I've enjoyed may not be as inclusive towards neurodivergent perspectives... and that's okay, it doesn't have to be. It's a similar feeling of realizing a "friend" isn't the safe space I had expected either.